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Carbon Reduction Related Discussions amd Debate

TOPIC: Green Myths on Global Warming

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #16

There's a big difference between actually running out of carbon fuels and being prevented from using both existing and new sources of carbon fuels by the global warming agenda. The world has 100s of years of coal reserves, for example but we are closing down our coal fired power stations. Current policy will result in energy povery and energy shortages because our governemnt is prematurely abandoning carbon fuels and promoting non-vaible and highly expensive 'alternatives.' Also, about 20% of oil is 'easy oil' to extact - we have to use both existing and new techniques to extract as much of the rest as possible. Then there is the UK's recent find of shale gas and tar sands elsewhere. I too look forward to the day when we truly have renewable energy to meet our needs, but that day is many decades away. Until then we need to continue using carbon fuels and spend money on research and development of viable alternatives rather than wasting huge amounts of time money and effort on futile Canutian weather/climate control.

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #17

Just realised that Both of you are petrolheads. Kieth is a protesting driver, and Paul from asociated drivers or something. Whats your beef? Car not big enough? Petrol too expensive? Thats nowt to do with climate change, or 'greens' thats the uk tax man. Taxing fuel for income, using climate change for an excuse perhaps but its not one I belive is right, or sincere. taxing fuel is not doing anyone any good, but dont blame the 'greens'. On the other hand how many cars are on the road? how can we physically manage the projected numbers? NOx & PM10 pollutants are still there regardless of your CO2 delusions. My home town is cut in half by a big fat road so big fat drivers can driver there big fat cars to work everyday. Despit a perfectly good bus service and a direct train. But no, they wanna car, its there god given right. Like havin a gun in the US. Even tho like the gun it kills, maims and threatens our children. Gods, I cant believe your hypocrisy! Having a go at folk trying to protect our kids from an unpleasent future, and there you go driving around killing 'em! Ridiculus.

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #18

I agree that climate science is irrelevant. We need to forget about trying to predictably control the climate/weather, particularly via unilateral policies that will have no local or global effect. Forget the red-herring of CO2 and associated taxes and policies. Instead focus efforts and resources on developing genuinely viable alternatives. HM Govt needs to stop picking losers as winners, and heavily subsidising them.

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #19

I feel both parties have very strong opinions over this topic which we welcome with open arms, however at this point I want to ask all forum members to discuss where we can go next with global warning policies and what procedures we should implement in the UK and Europe?

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #20

Large diesel engines like those in buses in town centres are the big source of NOx and Particulates. Not to mention the respirable carcinogens 1,8-DNP and 3-NBA that are emitted when large diesel bus engines are under load. You'll be pleased to know that my new diesel car has a particulate filter that reduces g/km particulate emissions to 0.0001 How are buses doing? Outside of London, according to the latest Government figues, even cars containing just the driver can produce less gCO2 per passenger km than buses - this is due to low average ocupancy for buses, which is in turn due to a lack of demand for bus travel outisde of peak hours when buses run largley empty, albeit as an important public service. I'm not a petrol head or a diesel head - I use the mode of tranpsort most approprite for my needs rather than the needs of some bureaucrat who hates cars and drivers.

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #21

Oh here we go. Now the typical Green personal abuse. The usual sign when folk are losing the debate. Wondered how long it would take a for a Google search but I take that as a compliment. It was this site that decided to publish ABD. So are you seriously thinking, just like Phil Jones, that other views are not welcome?

I am no petrol-head I am a 71 year old ex cop. It is your crowd, and the bogus green road safety lobby that bring our kids into it. Brain wash them and propagandarise them even in schools. So, that is why I point out, that what you are doing is definitely frightening them and spoiling their lives right now; proud of yourselves are you? Don't come the 'killing kids' nonsense. Without motor transport your economy would collapse overnight and far more of them would die because of it. But how many are being killed from the economic effect of Green policies anyway? Even on the road, experts predict more will be killed because of the Green agenda. Incidentally UKs cars only produce about 0.28% of all man made CO2. Big deal!.

So never mind who I am or what I do, just face the points I raise. Do tell; is mankind ever to be able to save the planet? Is CO2 a life giving gas and only a mildly warming one at that? Are there other far more destructive and unhealthy polluting natural events like volcano eruptions? Are we at the low end of historic CO2? Was the planet more vibrant at about 5 times the level?

Oh do please explain how you want the planet to be. When you have decided we'll ask the other 7 billion and then having decided, if we all agree, how do we keep it at this ideal? When you have managed that, explain what powers mankind has to do it too. Then explain why it should be like that when for most of its 5 billion years it hasn't been.

Grow up. When your time comes it will be your own personal Armageddon. The age old irrational fear of Armageddon is what drives all this and allows the charlatans to pick your pockets over it. Well excuse me if I don't want to go down that road. So why the rudeness? I have said let's disagree. You do your own thing and allow me to do mine unmolested. Can't you lot manage that? It seems that you cannot if your last post was anything to go by and there lays the problem.

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #22

I am surprised that these "Myths" still seem to be being troted out in the face of considerable
scientific evidence to the contrary. I suggest you read the results of the Berkley Earth Project (comisioned by a group with vested interest in perpetuating these "myths".
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15373071. Quick synopsis.

The Earth's surface really is getting warmer, a new analysis by a US scientific group set up in the wake of the "Climategate" affair has concluded.

The Berkeley Earth Project has used new methods and some new data, but finds the same warming trend seen by groups such as the UK Met Office and Nasa.

The project received funds from sources that back organisations lobbying against against acceptance of man-made global warming.
The group's work also examined claims from "sceptical" bloggers that temperature data from weather stations did not show a true global warming trend.

The claim was that many stations have registered warming because they are located in or near cities, and those cities have been growing - the urban heat island effect.

The Berkeley group found about 40,000 weather stations around the world whose output has been recorded and stored in digital form.

It developed a new way of analysing the data to plot the global temperature trend over land since 1800.

What came out was a graph remarkably similar to those produced by the world's three most important and established groups, whose work had been decried as unreliable and shoddy in climate sceptic circles.

What came out was a graph remarkably similar to those produced by the world's three most important and established groups, whose work had been decried as unreliable and shoddy in climate sceptic circles.

Even if you believe none of this - and that it is all a global conspiracy - I would really like a car that does 100 mpg, emits no pollution, costs little etc. I still remembeer the car industry explaining how getting to 50 mpg would be a major challenge - if not impossible.
Last Edit: 2 years, 1 month ago by Scott Buckler.

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #23

Sorry I had no idea 'petrolhead' was so offensive. please allow me to withdraw that comment and apologise for any offensive caused. However I stand by my comment regarding the car culture that prevails across the UK and the impact it has on health. The car is an essential form of transport and is valuable when used appropriatly, but how often do the majority of drivers use it appropriatly?

Regarding the statement about pollutants in towns, i would be interested to know the source of the infomation given that buses are the main cause and that a car is better value for CO2.

As for the questions...is mankind ever to be able to save the planet? please stop with the 'saving the planet' stuff. No one is trying to save a planet. Is CO2 a life giving gas and only a mildly warming one at that? - Life giving for plants yes, humans no unless yiou are talking about eating them. Mildly warming? compared to methane yes, but there is alot of it about you know. Are there other far more destructive and unhealthy polluting natural events like volcano eruptions? Yes they contribute but are now dwarfed by human fossil fuel burning. (see www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/index.cfm
or www.earthmagazine.org/earth/article/371-7da-7-1e

Are we at the low end of historic CO2? Nope.Was the planet more vibrant at about 5 times the level?Might have been, but not much good for humans was it! And Incidently it was you that brough the kids into the arguement, i just commented on the hypocracy of such a statment.

Now I apologised for the petrohead jam, lets keep this professional from now on can we?
Last Edit: 2 years, 1 month ago by Scott Buckler.

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #24

RE; 2006 NAS 'Hockey Stick' Panel
- they accepted virtually all the 'hockey stick' criticisms made by McIntyre and McKitrick and advised that 'strip-bark bristlecone pines' should not be used in climate reconstructions - then used a study using 'strip-bark bristlecone pines' to support the 'hockey stick' - you just couldn't make this stuff up!
As for the 'Berkeley Earth Project,' 'BEST' co-author Prof Judith Curry: said that Prof Muller’s claim that he has proven global warming sceptics wrong was also a ‘huge mistake’.....‘There is no scientific basis for saying that warming hasn’t stopped,’ she said. ‘To say that detracts from the credibility of the data, which is very unfortunate.’

‘This is nowhere near what the climate models were predicting,’ Prof Curry said. ‘Whatever it is that’s going on here, it doesn’t look like it’s being dominated by CO2.’

Prof Muller is actually a decent bloke, and he sent Steve McIntyre the BEST papers before their public release: climateaudit.org/2011/10/22/first-thoughts-on-best/
I'm not too interested in what the liberal-left BBC's Richard Black has to say, although it was probably me via a direct Twitter tweet to him that prompted his predictable response about Prof Judith Curry.

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #25

Simple Question
There has not been any global warming over the last 10 years, so what is all the fuss about?
Attachments:

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #26

Hi Bob, good to have another member of the drivers association here. That is a simple question, but somewhat pointless as your assumption that temperatures have fallen is false. Can you help me out since I cant see where in that link it says global temperatures have fallen over the last 10 years. I do see fluctuations over the last 100 years with a general trend of temperature increase....but nothing to back up the idea that CO2 is working opposite to temperature increase. Maybe you should look at this again? data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #27

Beats me! But, Breaking News - more Climategate emails released: noconsensus.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/cli...gate-2-0/#more-12598

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #28

Oh right. So we are now selective about what associations we should belong to also? Er so what is this association we are responding to? It's not as if all this gloople wombling nonsense isn't going to affect drivers mostly is it? Most who get excited about it probably live in a city within walking or cycling distance of work or near their station, have no family and cannot accept that it is drivers that keep their whole lifestyle operating. Supplies and essentials are just as needed in cities. So yes, let's speak for the 30 million drivers and their families if that is OK?

But we are telling you good news. What's your problem? You and your grand-kids will probably die of old age or illness so stop worrying yourselves. It aint gonna happen. Cheer up all of you. 

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #29

Nothing new here is there. As before, its what you get when someone nicks your private email messages between you and a work mate. Take words and phases out of context and hey poresto - conspiracy! Six committees investigated the allegations and found no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. Or are skeptics suggesting that they were part of the conspiracy too? The scientific consensus that global warming is occurring as a result of human activity remains unchanged.

Now, lets try and get some consensus going. I'll go first. I dont need everyone to believe in the evidience of human based climate change, ok there is a start. We can all believe what we want lets have a party :-). But my deal breaker is this. We have to get our human activity to be more efficient so to consume less resources (including fossil fuels), create less waste and distribute these resources more equally. Any one able to move towrds me on that one?

Re: Green Myths on Global Warning 2 years, 1 month ago #30

What consensus? What about 30,000 scientists that signed against it, about 5000 of them PHDs. But as Einstein said. Science isn't about consensus there need only be one who is correct. So even the 'consensus' spin is flawed. But of course no-one wants waste. Of course we need efficiency but so long as we are not screwing ourselves to do it and that there are no profiteers from it either; other wise we miss the objective. So how come saving the world and the people is so profitable? 'Don't do as I do. Do as I tell you'? See HRH Charles and Al Gore for setting fine examples. So let's see them bring themselves down to my level if they care that much. It aint gonna happen. 
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